Dr. George Tiller, Operation Rescue, Late Term Abortion Procedure doctor murdered in Church

They killed him in Church. Dr. George Tiller was murdered in his church on a Sunday.

I’m a Jewish woman from Los Angeles raised by left wing hippie idealists, weaned on a steady diet of Ms. Magazine, peace rallies and communist ideals.

And with my background, I ache for the people who went to church to pray this morning, and instead were victims of the hate group known as Operation Rescue.

Right now, there is a woman in or around Wichita Kansas who needs an abortion. It’s not about convience or promiscuity, there are situations which put the mother’s life at risk.

With Dr. Tiller dying at the hands of a hate group, you can get ready for more of this.


Because this is what abortion looks like when it’s forced underground.

I am furious, and sad.

I am also pro-life. Yeah, go figure.

Facebook Comments

  • http://myjourneywithaids.wordpress.com Kenn Chaplin

    How awful – and sad. How does Operation Rescue really believe this will help their cause?

  • http://growninmyheart.com pickel

    As an adoptive parent I am pro-choice. Go figure. I have seen so many situations and am raising a child whose birth mother made a choice to keep her child in society that dictates doctors to perform abortions (Russia). But, I also know that many birth mothers, like my sons, also chose to hurt the fetus in them. And that makes me angry.

  • sherri haymond

    well said. have they confirmed operation rescue’s involvement? (of course it seems likely…) regardless, terry’s public statement is vile http://bit.ly/hg5IG.

  • http://www.melissasmallwood.com Melissa Multitasking Mama

    I am anti-abortion (I hate saying pro-life because who is pro-death, really?) for myself but I also believe that I don’t have the right to impose my beliefs on anyone else. God convicts, not me.

    I am sickened by the fact that I have to explain to my kids not only what abortion is but also why someone would feel the need to kill a man on his way to church because some moron took “vengeance” into his own hands.

    Despicably sad!

  • Karen S.

    Need not tell you how I feel….nor to point out the irony inherent in so-called pro-lifers taking a life…I guess life only counts for them if it is in utero and/or in agreement with their viewpoint….sickening and hypocritical.

  • http://www.cassieboorn.com Cassie

    I am pro-life. This makes me sick. If a group is pro-life and trying to state that abortion is murder why would they choose murder as their resolution? sickening.

  • Yo mama

    Women have become complacent about control of their bodies. My generation remembers off shore abortions, women using hangers and worse. Abortion should not be a means of birth control, but so many women are deprived of birth control because of lack of funds, drs who won’t prescribe, fear of their parents, lack of info, etc.

    Pro-lifers kill. What does that tell you? Nothing has changed. I’m ill and despairing. Maybe Bristol Palin can provide us with some solutions.

  • Yo mama

    Oh, I should add this…Let the right to lifers aim their venom at rapists.

  • http://corrinrenee.com corrin

    That makes me absolutely ill on all accounts and I fail to see the logic. I am pro-choice for a slew of reasons, starting with abortion being a medical procedure in which the patient should not be denied proper medical care and attention.

  • stephanie

    It is pretty freakin’ awful. In a perfect world we would not need abortion but the world ain’t perfect and we can’t allow women, families, doctors to be victimized like this. I could go on but I’m getting too pissed to talk (wishing Wichita was closer than a five hour drive too)…

  • http://www.flashfree.wordpress.com Miz Liz

    Hypocrites. Pro-life until they disagree with someone elses’ point of view. Then they justify murder using religion as a defense. This news just absolutely sickens and infuriates me. Who would Jesus kill?

    Tiller took a stand and acted in accordance with his personal ethics. Op Rescue, who called the man a monster, now came out against the act. You reap what you sow motherfuckers. Live with this one. I tweeted it earlier and I’ll say it again. SHAME!

  • http://www.mommymelee.com Maria

    Stumbled this. More people need to see the alternative to safe, legal abortions. No one LIKES abortion. But it’s a necessary event in the lives of some women, for a variety of reasons that none of us have the right to judge. That devastating event should always be handled with care and medical professionalism. It’s okay to hate abortion. It’s okay.

    But dancing on the grave of a dead, murdered man? Shameful.

  • http://www.rockanddrool.com melissa

    i’m so sickened at this whole act.
    i’m pro-choice. but anti-abortion. wait, let me rephrase…
    abortion should, most definitely, be a choice. but should not be used as a form of birth control. i know people who have had multiple abortions. and that is disgusting.
    but…i also know people, including my mother, who…had they not had abortions, they would not be alive today.
    but anyways…
    that doctors murder…is a shame. an absolute disgusting shame.
    and if yo mama is your mom…her comment rocked!!!

  • http://JessicaGottlieb.com Jessica Gottlieb

    Melissa, she is, indeed my mom… ans she does rock.

  • http://heather-harris.blogspot.com BaronessHeather

    Dugg this.
    You said it all. There are just some things that are not to be done for any reason. Shooting people is a biggie, and I can’t believe that those who claim to uphold the sanctity of life are the very ones condoning this act.

  • http://marymoores.blogspot.com Mary @ Holy Mackerel

    I too am pro-life, and pro-abortion…and I am heartbroken at hearing this news. When will this stop???

  • less

    just consider his death a VERY late semester abortion.

  • Norris Hall

    All of you who claim to be pro life need a reality check.
    There is absolutely no need for you to backpeddle and appear horrified that a baby killer got what he deserved.
    If you really believe that Tiller was taking innocent lives, why claim to be outraged by the person who put the baby killer where he belongs.
    If someone were to attack my children I would make no apologies for putting the guy out of his misery and I would be insulted if you berated me for doing the right thing.
    Would you be upset if someone took it upoon himself to assassinate Osama Ben Ladin? Of course not. We’d probably give him a medal (and the 50 million dollars that our government is awarding to anyone who can bring him to justice.)

    Enough wringing hands and nashing of teeth.
    After todays killing, abortionists all over the country are probably thinking it’s time to get out.

    Mission accomplished!!

  • afather

    His murder won’t serve any purpose. But have you ever seen a sonogram of a 7 months or even a 5 months fetus. A baby, with a face, eyes, sucking its thumb, breathing, sleeping, responding to light and sound. I am not categorically anti-abortion, but I abhor late-term abortion. No matter how you dress it up or deny it, you are taking a life.

  • http://alexboldes.blogspot.com Alexandra

    I am disgusted by your Comments. I am pro choice. I don’t believe women should be denied the right to have an abortion. I don’t think abortion should be used as a sort of Birth Control, but sometimes Abortion is the right thing to do. Do you have a daughter? What would you do if she got raped and ended up being pregnant? Would you deny her the abortion and therefore punish her for somebody else’s crime? I am tired of hearing people trying to push their believes on others. Freedom? That inludes the freedom of having a choice.

  • http://wwwjackbenimble.blogspot.com/ Jack

    There is absolutely no need for you to backpeddle and appear horrified that a baby killer got what he deserved.

    Yo Norris,

    I won’t back peddle here. The hypocrisy exhibited by the murderer of the good doctor is only matched by the sad comments supporting him.

    You may not like what he did. You may think that it is wrong, but you haven’t the right to murder.

    If you don’t like abortion, lobby congress about it. Work to change the laws. Otherwise you are nothing more than a criminal. Nice job.

  • http://www.fightinmadmary.com fightin’ mad mary

    Thank you Jessica for not being afraid to give your opinion on the toughest of topics!

    I think you can be pro-life and pro-choice, and like you said – a woman in Wichita whose life may be at risk no longer has a choice. It’s a very sad day.

    and to “Norris Hall” – Norris Hall was the location of the second shooting attack during the Virginia Tech massacre on April 16, 2007. Did you cheer for that shooting too?

  • http://blog.shapingyouth.org Shaping Youth

    I caught that Norris Hall reference too…eery. Let’s not forget that pro-life and pro-murder are oxymoronic, and that the word ‘choice’ doesn’t mean there always IS one.

    p.s. I just wrote “What will kids learn about Dr. Tiller, and from who?” http://blog.shapingyouth.org/?p=7096 and quoted your LA Mom Blog extensively, Jessica. (send me a logo or head shot if you want?) –Amy J.

    You can read the rest here, as I quoted http://blog.shapingyouth.org/?p=7096

  • http://blog.shapingyouth.org Shaping Youth

    oops, delete that last line, Jessica, it’s a duplicate!

  • http://blog.shapingyouth.org Shaping Youth

    I caught that Norris Hall reference too…eery. Let’s not forget that pro-life and pro-murder are oxymoronic, and that the word ‘choice’ doesn’t mean there always IS one.

    p.s. I just wrote “What will kids learn about Dr. Tiller, and from who?” http://blog.shapingyouth.org/?p=7096 and quoted your LA Mom Blog extensively, Jessica. (send me a logo or head shot if you want?) –Amy J.

  • Lynn

    Although I do believe the murder of Dr. Tiller is criminal, I don’t think it fair that all “pro-lifers” be bunched together some comments feel the need do. I would like to add some info on the matter: The clinic where Dr. Tiller performed his services is 1 of only 3 in the country of its kind. He performed late term abortions, meaning after 21 weeks gestation. In a clinic setting, it is a very sad thing, NO, a repulsive act against a woman and the fetus/baby. For me, this is what irks me. I think, what made a woman wait that long? You’re over halfway there…you could make it the rest of the way and see what happens.
    For those of you who will say “For health reasons…To save the mother!”. I’ve been there. I know. I know that if that is true, it is called “medically necessary” and there are hospitals where a woman can be induced and give birth, and most important hold her baby until the end.
    Bottom line: Murder is wrong. No matter how you cut it.
    I feel very sad for his wife who was singing in the choir at the time.

  • http://anniegirl1138.wordpress.com annie

    This is not about babies or abortion. It’s about control. It’s about restricting women and using their role in reproduction to do it.

    I feel sorry for Dr. Tiller and his family.

  • Conor Baker

    Look, saying this is not about abortion or babies is completely wrong. It is not about control. We bow to a wonderful document, known as the U.S. Constitution. The Constitution is not only democratic or republican based, but it also takes a stand on the Individualism side of democracy, versus the Soviet Union’s social communism.

    Because of our Individualist base, No human being’s rights may infringe upon another’s. This clause is the fundamental origin of all laws, including the ban on murder, slavery, and theft.

    Therefore, when a women becomes selfish, and decides to abort her baby, she is infringing upon the baby’s right to live, which is completely unconstitutional.

    Legally, and, t0 me, morally, there is only one circumstance that a women should be allowed an abortion. If the woman had a 100% chance of death, then it would be her choice, no questions asked, and she would have to live with her choice.

    Just because the Federal government allows it, does not mean it is right. That ol’ Honest Abe ain’t famous for nothing. He took a stance against slavery, and look how many lives were lost over it. Right or wrong, slavery was unconstitutional.

    Thus, it is about control. It is about controlling death, and keeping it to a minimum.

    But for this Dr. Tiller, I am afraid you all have it wrong. First off, he didn’t just perform normal abortion, which in itself is questionable. He gave out late term abortion. If you are unfamiliar with this term, let me define it for you.

    Step One: Wait till week 21 (5th month). http://blog.kaminscy.com/wp-content/uploads/image/fetus_in_5_month.png

    Step Two: Suck out baby, stab in the back of the neck with a sharp object, finally: suck out brains.

    Step Three: Threw it away…

    If that doesn’t give you nightmares, I don’t know what will.

    This Dr. Tiller was comparable to Hitler, of a smaller magnitude, and you, as a Jewish woman, should understand this. Now I don’t believe in murder, but I do believe in America’s right to line people up and shoot ’em (you’re next Pelosi).

    Whoever squeezed the trigger should’ve waited till we could line the Doc up next to Congress and GM, but whatever, saves time.

    God Bless the Angel who just saved countless lives!

    • http://JessicaGottlieb.com Jessica Gottlieb

      I would caution my readers about accepting “Conor Baker’s” comment as fact. If you want the details of abortion I recommend you ask an OB/GYN, not an anonymous blogger. The NIH has some data, but they maintain it is seldom done.


  • Yo mama

    I wonder how men would react if women tried to dictate to men how they should or should not take control of their bodies.

  • Mike

    Conor Baker, it is too bad you can be so ignorant that you believe YOU know all about abortion when you’ve never been pregnant (unless Conor is a woman); but even if you have been pregnant you’re still condoning murder and an illegal act whether you LIKE it or not.

    You probably are a Christian fundamentalist who isn’t far removed from the type of people who destroyed the WTC. May you find some peace to go with your violent mind.

  • http://www.uppercasewoman.com Cecily

    You know, Mr. Baker, when I had my late term abortion (just at the edge of the third trimester), I had about a 60% chance of death. I also had a 80% of strokes and seizure with coma and/or death, 100% chance of kidney failure, and 90% chance of liver failure. If we’d waited much longer, those numbers would have risen.

    At what point would you tell my doctors it was okay to intervene and save my life? Where do you draw the line? Why do you think anyone other than my doctors and I have the right to decide WHEN the right moment is? After all, organ failure and coma wouldn’t KILL me. I’d still be alive.

    How about my friend Julia, whose son had a condition that was not only incompatible with life, but was causing the baby tremendous agony and pain — which was visible on ultrasound? Should she have just gone to term, knowing the whole time that the movement she felt in her womb was her much loved and wanted son writhing in pain? Or should she have been allowed to have the procedure that Dr. Tiller invente, thus ending his pain with a simple injection to his heart?

    Do you actually think you have any idea what you are talking about? Because you really don’t. Trust me. I’ve been there.

  • http://blog.shapingyouth.org Shaping Youth

    Cecily makes a strong and compelling point eloquently. As does Lynn about not lumping ‘pro-lifers’ into one group, but I’m not sure the location issue and implications are clear for me at all…re: ‘clinic vs. hospital.’

    After all, the lack of service providers in hospitals (due to all of the intimidation/politics/risk to providers, etc.) is what compels a ‘clinic setting’ is it not? Absent any hospital option, where else would a doctor be able to render care? And Jessica, you’re right, fact checking with accurate data sources is key, confirming D&E is a rare occurrence/aka “medical necessity.”

  • Conor Baker

    To “Yo mama” I say, not once have I said, “Come on guys, let’s control women and how they run their bodies.” I am telling YOU, along with other women, “CONTROL YOUR OWN BODIES.” If you can’t handle the after effects of sex, which is reproduction, don’t do it.

    Mike: Now, I am a man, and I have not been pregnant, but I have been right next to countless women who have had children, including my own mother who had a daughter that died. My mother had to have a induced pregnancy during late-term, not an abortion. She watched her child die naturally, not with a knife in the neck and the brains sucked out, thank God.

    As for fundamentalism, you sir, are quite wrong and shows how IGNORANT you are. Although I affiliate with the Catholic Church, I am quite open-minded with other forms of beliefs, even including ideas from Islam, Judaism, Wicca, Buddhism, Universalism, and the Secret. I do not agree with Fundamentalist at all; the Bible is a poetic message, not a History Text Book.

    Cecily: Don’t give me no bullshit. If you were in the 8th month, you could have had a c-section. Abortion at that point is improbable and not “medically necessary”, only the “easy” way out.

    Oh, and you still had a 40% chance to live, but your child had a whopping 0% chance to live!

    Jessica: That same sentiment is the downfall of society. The Left-wing maintains that Pro-Lifers and Christians are close-minded and stubborn, but when we bring up credible points (abortion is unconstitutional), you automatically say that we have no back up and are just nut-jobs that no one should listen to.

    Shaping Youth: You are right. But it has been turned into a Clinic v. Hospital v. Alley argument. I seriously detest Alley abortion, I disagree with Clinical abortion, and I am cautious of Hospital abortion.

    As with any crime, it still will happen, but that does not mean we should legalize it. Heavy drugs are distributed, women trafficked, and innocents murdered on daily basis, ILLEGALLY. So, should those acts be legalized… and yes, it is that serious.

    This is not an argument of ME trying to tell you what to do, it is ME trying to be a voice for those babies that do not have one.

  • Yo mama

    Conor: Rape victims who become pregnant have no control over their bodies.

    You’re evil, sick and dangerous. To quote you…. “Now I don’t believe in murder, but I do believe in America’s right to line people up and shoot ‘em (you’re next Pelosi).”

    You’re scary. I hope you’re not armed. Pelosi, beware…I’m serious.

  • Conor Baker

    Haha, very funny Yo mama. Yes, it is true that rape victims have no control over their bodies. And I really have nothing to say about rape victims, because thats a whole new, sad story. All I can do is urge them to keep the baby.

    If you honestly think I am evil, sick an dangerous, than okay. I personally believe Abortion is just that. But such judgements are based on personal beliefs and our own points of view.

    But if you honestly think that a cowboy boot wearing, derby donning Catholic who likes to wear his Dodger jersey while talking about re-individualizing America to a more Libertarian nation and how that relates to Terraforming Mars, integrating that into his novel, is evil, sick, and dangerous, than I would rather call myself, “well-intended, disgusted, and radical”. But whatever, they’re just words.

  • Lynn

    Please give me better reasons than these.

    When women have a right to choose….
    In 1987, the Alan Guttmacher Institute collected questionnaires from 1,900 women in the United States who came to clinics to have abortions. Of the 1,900 questioned, 420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks. These 420 women were asked to choose among a list of reasons they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. The results were as follows:

    * 71% Woman didn’t recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
    * 48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
    * 33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
    * 24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
    * 8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
    * 8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
    * 6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
    * 6% Woman didn’t know timing is important
    * 5% Woman didn’t know she could get an abortion
    * 2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
    * 11% Other

    on another note…

    Abortion Doctor Killer was Radical Anarchist Nut

    Although the shooting of Dr. George Tiller will undoubtedly be used to tarnish the entire pro-life movement, the shooter, as expected was a nut. He was a member of the Freeman, a radical anarchist anti-government group and had previously been arrested for possession of bomb-making materials and failure to pay income taxes.

  • http://magpiemusing.com magpie

    I am horrified by his death, and more horrified by some of these comments. Lord.

    Jessica – thanks for a brave post – there have been several really good ones today, including Cecily’s. When I get home, I’m sending some money to Medical Students for Choice. And, I wish I didn’t have to.

  • A Henderson

    I don’t condone murder for anyone, in or out of the uterus. The problem is that each person bears the responsibility of choice and many people do not choose to take responsibility for their lives or their choices each and every day. In America, life will never be perfect. In America, you do have choices and that includes being a victim. Therefore, each and every person taking responsibility would avoid the need for this circle of violence legal or not. However, life will never be perfect. So, no matter what you think or wish for, there will always be someone who chooses to do awful acts to others. The best the human race can hope for is for good people in their homes to stand up for what’s right in their homes, AND good people in their neighborhood stand up for what’s right in their neighborhood, AND good people in their town….you get the picture, I’m sure. Today we need to pay attention. With all we have learned to progress the human race, science, and technology, The Human Race fails on fundamental caring for their family and their neighbor and their town, etc. We all take time to send in our outrage, but we all need to remember to look around us and be good advocates of caring. This request has no bearing on your religion, race, sex, or financial standing. We all need to care again – every day, not when it’s convenient. I wish you all the best, and hope you each of you will continue to focus your energy, not in anger, but in paying close attention to people in your circle. Not glamorous I know.

  • david

    I’m about to post this on my blog:

    I am a former abortion provider. I did not know Dr. Tiller personally but only heard wonderful things about his practice and skill. As one of the diminishing number of physicians who performed second trimester abortions, I can state unequivocally that it is never a procedure that is approached in a cavalier fashion. Not every gynecologist can perform it, even if trained appropriately. The sad thing is that we’ve done a really bad job at training the next generation of providers. I taught many residents, but of those, many will not provide abortion services for a variety of reasons. Part of why this is is that abortion has been marginalized. People don’t want to talk about it. My colleagues for the most part didn’t want to deal with it. Some couldn’t say the “a-word,” substituting euphemisms like VIP (voluntary interruption of pregnancy). Abortion is a very common procedure. It is a necessary procedure. But it will be an extinct, forgotten procedure if clinicians are not trained to do it safely and compassionately. We need to get it back into the hospitals so that it is again part of routine gyn practice. Abortion training must be made more widely available within residency training programs. It’s idiotic that many ob/gyn residency programs do not offer in-house abortion services, but must send “interested” residents to outside clinics, often on their own time during weekends.

    When I was in practice, I did a lot of procedures in ob/gyn. Including abortion. Some of my most grateful patients were those for whom I performed an abortion. I never performed any abortion without being absolutely certain that the patient desired it and that it was her own decision. That’s what “choice” is about, after all. My abortion patients didn’t wake up that morning and decide “What the hell, I think I’ll have an abortion.” This was a very, very difficult decision for any woman to make. People who have not walked in their shoes should not be making judgments or regulations about this most private and personal of medical decisions.

    All of us who either performed or continue to perform abortions need to finally stand up, be counted, and say “enough.” Abortion providers have this terrible stereotype of being slimy, scumbags in the margins of the medical profession. We’re not. We’re academics. We’re honorable. Most of us have delivered babies. All of us provide or provided services that are challenging and that many physicians either can’t or simply won’t provide. Rather than honor abortion providers, society (including many physicians) treats them like criminals. This must change. While I recognize the potential danger in coming out as an abortion provider, there is strength in numbers. And just as the Gay community came out and took steps to remove the stigma of being gay, abortion providers should stand up, be proud, and demonstrate that we’re here to stay. Only when abortion is de-marginalized can we start addressing the onerous restrictions on the provision of abortion services and also combat the insidious demonizing of abortion providers. Such demonizing was absolutely behind the assassination of Dr. Tiller yesterday.

  • Kara

    It was absolutely wrong to kill Dr. Tiller. However, those that think all Pro-lifers commit such extreme acts are fools. Most Pro-lifers don’t think it’s right to go around killing people who don’t share our views.

    Abortion is murder and without a doubt a late-term abortion is murder. Unless the woman is a victim of rape or her life is at serious risk, then an abortion should not be performed. Most abortions are performed because the woman does not want to take responsibility for her decision to have sex. People treat abortion as a birth control method. Never mind the fact that abortion increases the woman’s risk for many health problems down the road. The baby suffers and the woman suffers. How does abortion benefit the average woman? People are always talking about the woman’s rights. What about the fetus’? Would you have wanted your mother to abort you?

    Here’s a thought ladies: if you don’t want to have a baby, then keep your legs closed! It’s not rocket science. Don’t have sex until you’re responsible enough to handle all of the consequences.

  • kermit

    “Most abortions are performed because the woman does not want to take responsibility for her decision to have sex. People treat abortion as a birth control method”

    And you would know this how, exactly? Even if you do spend your time talking to the women in the waiting rooms, what makes you think that anybody owes you an explanation of why they’re there? They’re not making you pay for the service, the procedure doesn’t affect your welfare at all, so why do you care about the motivations? Do you also hang around liquor stores taking sober people’s car keys away from them and then follow it up with visits to convenience stores to stop people from buying cigarettes?

    “How does abortion benefit the average woman?” Since when is society supposed to carter only to the “average” person? Since most people aren’t disabled, does that mean that they deserve no consideration, too?

  • http://mrspop007.blogspot.com Mrs Pop

    Two wrongs do not make a right.


    We are not animals. Or at least, we should strive to not be. I hope I would never have to come to a point where an abortion would be a choice for me. I encourage people to not get them. I am Christian. More than that, I’m [gasp!] a Baptist! Southern Baptist at that! And while I will never support Planned Parenthood or NARAL, neither will I condemn women who have abortions. It is not my place.

    So don’t lump those of us who are “conservative,” “Christian,” and “Pro-family” all into this close-minded category.

    A few nutjobs give us all a bad name.

  • Conor Baker

    You know Mrs. Pop,

    You are absolutely right.

    P.S. A person’s a person no matter how small,

  • stepmother

    I would like to challenge persons, men and women,
    who profess this great love of life to go to
    your local adoption agency and sign up. Sign up
    to take the next three, no, make it four children
    who are unwanted. Make it hard on yourself. Connor,
    can you afford to raise four children? Yes, then make
    it five. Make it six. Make it difficult so that
    you are personally responsible for these children.
    And, be sure to raise them to be responsible
    catholics who love their country. Be sure to
    educate them, so don’t just stop at high school.
    Make sure all five children get a college education.
    And be sure that YOU go into debt for those
    five children. Then, after twenty two years,
    come back here and tell all of us how we women
    should be responsible and take care of our
    bodies and the children they produce. Let me
    know how it goes.

  • Lynn

    Well Stepmother, I don’t know what school of thought you are teaching but from where I come from we take care of our own, NO MATTER WHAT. WE love, we educate, we shelter…WE do everything that you do. I don’t need to adopt to profess my love of life. In my family, and my family’s heritage, we all raise our children together, so I have plenty of children to love and nourish, but go into debt for? I think not. That is one lesson I bring with me from my Dad’s generation. You work for your own. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING including an education should just be handed to someone without hard work. Let your kids earn it themselves.
    Man, you sound like a copter mom without a doubt.

    As a side note, while adoption is better than abortion, it is still not an ideal solution.
    David above talks about abortion coming out of the dark and such. Well I’d like to see programs that offer women information on the joys of Motherhood as an option before they commit to an abortion. Some women are just scared. They just need to know it is going to be okay and LIFE (literally) goes on.

  • Conor Baker

    Hey, I never said anything about putting them into adoption. I never said I would be a better mother. Unlike many “women”, or rather teenage girls, I can keep my legs closed for longer than 5 minutes, so why should I, or those poor children for that matter, have to pay for their irresponsibility?

  • http://JessicaGottlieb.com Jessica Gottlieb

    @Connor it’s not about keeping our legs shut, there’s a jackass guy involved too.

    I’m letting you and Lynn have a huge platform here. Lynn, I’m pretty sure my mom and stepmother would love to give you a beating right about now, and Conor, you’ve got to be respectful of women here.

    This is my space.

    I want to hear your opinions. But I want you to refrain from douchebaggery.

    Yes, that is the technical term for it.

  • Lynn

    Have your space. I meant no disrespect towards you.
    As for your mom and stepmother wanting to “give me a huge beating right now”, all I have to say is so much for those peace rallies.
    You know what made me want to comment here in the first place? It was that image of the woman above. The way I see it is if you can post that, then to tell the story of the babies who are ripped…yes RIPPED from their mothers’ wombs after 16 weeks and beyond, to truly tell that story then that image could be beside the image of that woman. No Dr. Tiller DID NOT deserve to be murdered but neither do ALL OF THE BABIES. And I am sorry, but you had to know that posting something about Dr. Tiller with an image like that was going to catch the attention of people like me.
    So hey you got traffic for a few days.

    BTW We’re not douchebags. Men can be jackasses, but then besides a rape victim, the female can always choose for herself.

    Have fun with your little blog.

  • http://megger1018.blogspot.com/ Meghan Harvey

    This is the most RIDICULOUS argument. If you think abortion is murder or a sin against God, DON’T FUCKING HAVE ONE.
    No one is asking you to & no one is ever going to force you too.

  • http://thebrandbuilder.wordpress.com olivier blanchard

    This isn’t even an issue of pro-choice vs. anti-abortion. This is a simple case of 1st degree murder. No one’s life (not even an unborn child’s) was in imminent danger at the time. No laws were being broken. This was not an act of self defense. Simply put: Some self-righteous psycho perpetrated an act of premeditated murder. There is no excuse for that. None. Not legal, not religious, not moral.

    Norris, your point of view is that of a terrorist, brother. We have laws in this country. If you don’t agree with state and federal laws, vote. Run for office. Go door-to-door. Lobby. Do something to change the laws. When you start condoning murder, you know you’ve gone way off in the weeds. If you truly feel this way, you’re no better than an IRA bomber or a Taliban executioner. I hope you’ll eventually come back to your senses.

  • http://www.suburbanoblivion.com Suburban Oblivion

    I love how I keep seeing some of these extremist pro-lifers keeping saying how “he didn’t deserve to be killed BUT…” Once you add that but, you completely nullify the part where you sounded like someone who truly believed in being pro-LIFE. Pro-life does not mean picking and choosing who should get to live and who doesn’t. Either life is precious or it isn’t.

    And to whoever said something about us not being animals, it’s worth pointing out many animals will eat their young when they feel their environment is not safe for raising babies. Personally I find abortion far more civilized than cannibalism, but it’s interesting to note that even in nature this sort of thing does happen.

    Oh and Conor, what planet did you step off of that it’s all about the WOMAN keeping her legs closed? Why don’t I see you spewing such things about men keeping their dicks in their pants? Oh wait, I know, because that would imply that men have some hand in this, and thus equal responsibility to keep their pants zipped. (You were a virgin till marriage, right?)

  • http://www.tangerinetimes.com Myrna

    I agree Olivier. This is domestic terrorism. I remember when Roe V Wade was first passed. My father (a physician) was the ONLY doctor in our small town who would perform the procedures. This was a legal, approved medical procedure and my father was harrassed in the small town paper and shunned by many of the “leaders” in the town. I worked in his clinic part-time and can remember the atmosphere. Although he was a GP and didn’t technically HAVE to offer abortions, he felt it was morally wrong to NOT offer his patients an option. Many of the patients who came to him couldn’t even afford to drive to Dallas where they might have more options. Many, many young girls were given a second chance because of him. This saddens me beyond belief.

  • http://welcometothejuggle.blogspot.com Juggle Jane

    I fail to see the logic in going into a church to kill another human being to make a point about killing.

    For me, the choice debate will always come down to 2 words: Who decides? Who decides what grown women do with their own bodies?

    My answer will always be the same as Dr. Tiller’s and Dr. Carhart’s: Trust women. Trust women to make the decision that is right for themselves and their families.

  • http://carocurry1.blogspot.com Caroline

    Powerfully written . . . I won’t even get into the Norris Hall comment.

  • Rob

    Impassioned arguments all.

    A common theme seems to be “women’s rights”, ‘women’s decisions”, but no-one seems to be considering the rights of the aborted child to be born.

    Everyone in favor of abortion is already born. And you only exist because your mother chose NOT to have an abortion.

    Whilst the taking of a life, any life is abhorrent, sometimes it is necessary to do the wrong thing for the right reasons. Defend those who cannot defend themselves. Give a voice to the voiceless. Great people throughout history always have.

    I don’t think this comes down to trusting women, or deciding what grown women do with their bodies. It comes down to one person’s decision to end the life of another, because it suits their needs. Whatever they may be.

    And before you jump up and down about my being a man, and how would I know, my wife was given a 40% chance of carrying our child to term and surviving childbirth. We were urged to consider abortion. My wife refused. “It’s what a mother does” was her response.

    Not a day goes by that I don’t miss her. But I do have a beautiful baby girl. Someone who brings light, laughter and joy into my life every day. I would give anything to have my wife back, but I do believe she made the right decision.

  • kermit

    The fact is that you wouldn’t give “anything” to have your wife back, Rob. You valued having the kind more – had you not, you would have listened to what the doctor told your family and adopted a child instead or you could have gone the surrogate mother route. You chose not to do that. It suited (presumably) both your needs to have her carry a child and die in the process.

    “It comes down to one person’s decision to end the life of another, because it suits their needs.” Yes, it does. And until someone invents a gestation machine that can bring a fetus to term, it’s going to happen.

    And if you’re going to be completely honest, it’s not about the moral superiority of giving a voice to the unborn. It’s about the fact that you want to forcefully impose your morality on others. Your doctor did not force abortion upon your wife, it was given as an option.

    As a result of abortion, do a lot of wonderful people not get a chance at life? Sure. Had Stephen Hawking’s mom decided to abort (had she known at the time), we would have a great scientist. Yet for all his contribution to science, the man leads a pretty unfortunate personal life.

    My point is that those against abortion really don’t trust women to make that decision. The fact that the child isn’t wanted (and could very well be harmed in those 9 months of gestation) is given no consideration. Never mind about how that child would feel once it found out that its own mother didn’t want them.

    Never mind that in countries where abortion is safely, easily accessible and doesn’t carry the stigma that it does in the US, the abortion rate is actually lower (and the teen pregnancy rate is lower too).

  • Blue

    A doctor once told me he would perform an abortion because he saw it thus: “I hate killing. I would never kill a chicken, but I have cracked eggs.”

    Most sane people are pro-life. Nobody chooses abortion here in the US because they LIKE it. Every woman who becomes pregnant has a right to privacy and the only people allowed to jump up in her vagina are people she chooses. No government or religion has a right to get up in a woman’s business.

    If you think an unborn child is smarter than a pig or cow, you may have a point. I’m pretty sure that a fetus is less aware of its life than the pigs and cows we kill and EAT. THAT is more abhorrent than terminating an unwanted pregnancy. If a woman decides to terminate her pregnancy, I think that is a much wiser choice than raising and thus abusing a child. I personally would neither kill or abuse any child or animal. I am seriously Pro-Life. I will NEVER judge anyone who decides to terminate a pregnancy, however. (that’s a horrible decision for anyone to have to make) I don’t know why someone makes that choice and it is NONE OF MY BUSINESS!! I don’t want to know what’s going on between anyone’s legs….front or back. The government and the churches need to mind their own business, too.

    If you’re going to try and dictate who goes in or out of a woman’s vagina, you need to think about your so-called Pro-life stance. If you’re only Pro-life when it comes to humans, then you’re not really Pro-life. You’re a hypocrite.

  • Rob

    Ah Kermit. Firstly, the decision wasn’t mine. I couldn’t make that decision. It was my wife’s to make. And for the record, I would give anything, even my own life for my wife to be alive again. I would like you to explain to me how losing my wife suited my needs in any way, shape or form. Proposing to understand another’s thought process is extremely arrogant, unless you were there through the whole ordeal.

    I never claimed to take the moral high ground, and have not placed myself as either ‘pro-life’ or ‘pro-choice’, all I said was that the taking of life, for whatever reason is abhorrent. I don’t force my morals, forcefully or otherwise, on anyone. I firmly believe in live and let live, just don’t hurt anyone along the way.

    What motivates you so passionately on this issue? What is your vested interest in this debate? How is it that you feel it appropriate to (presume) what suited our needs?

  • Rob

    And while we’re on the subject Kermit, it sounds to me like you don’t ‘trust’ that my wife made ‘the right decision’. Guess there’s those forceful morals you were talking about.

  • CHAR

    There is no reason anyone should kill anyone espically a baby.. I don’t care what the situation is. Rape or whatever..GOD GAVE US LIFE AND HE WILL BE THE ONLY ONE THAT SHOULD TAKE IT AWAY..I feel bad for anybody to be killed but how do you think that poor innocent baby felt having its little brain sucked out while alive. Can you imagine the pain..You all cry at funerals but think its okay to slain a baby…Your the sick ones…GOD GAVE YOU LIFE AND MAY HE HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL..IF YOU DON’T CHANGE YOUR WAYS YOUR GOING TO KNOW THE TRUE MEANING OF HELL COME JUDGEMENT DAY…GOD WILL MAKE SURE OF THAT CAUSE THOSE ARE HIS BABIES YOU ARE KILLING.. HOW SICK ARE YOU TO THINK THAT WAY.. NOW IM PISSED…

  • http://megger1018.blogspot.com/ Meghan Harvey

    This may not be a very proper display of my debating skills, but this is the only response I could muster up on a Monday.
    Suck It.

  • CHAR

    If thats all you got. You are a petiful excuse of a human being.. Im sure that any one with any heart with children or babies would agree. I would hate to think you care about children in general if you can agree to something so cruel..Maybe god will bless with something so painful than you can imagine what an infant that can’t even defends his or herself has to indure, your a poor excuse for a human being…
    and . This is for all the innocent that have been slain… By the way i will pray for you tonight and everyone that believes that way.. May god bless you and give you a heart..

  • CHAR

    one more thing before i say my prayers..I do believe that an abortion is the thing to do only if the baby is already deceased or if the person laying on the table is dying..and then im not really sure about that one..only god can guide them through that but i would die to give my baby life but thats just me…I guess that is in gods hands. I love my babies and would give my life for them..I know you wouldn’t and i would hate to think you have children

  • kermit


    When you voluntarily bring up your personal story in what clearly had become a debate on abortion (not a sharing of personal stories) then you leave yourself open to criticism.

    Citing personal stories to support the pro-life stance (which is exactly what you did with your ever-so subtle “It’s what a mother does” comment) does not make an argument for adopting a universal policy – a policy that affects everyone, not just your family.

    I responded to your comment because I wanted point out that logic and reason is overwhelmingly absent in the arguments of pro-lifers. Because of this, a proper debate cannot take place, and we (i.e. society) will never reach common ground on the issue.

    The majority – if not all – of the comments here of pro-lifers involve just stating that they believe x and so should everyone else.

    The medical system worked for your and your family – your family had a choice, and abortion was given as an option – an option which you were free to decline without being ostracized. What I’m arguing is that other people should have the same freedom of choice you enjoyed without being made to feel guilty with emotional appeals of “it’s what a mother does” sanctimonious bullshit about fighting for the rights of the defenseless.

    Do I personally think your wife made the right decision? No. To me, “what a mother does” is to be there for her children to raise them. What a mother does is not value those 9 months of gestation over and above actually being there to raise them for the rest of her life. Being pregnant for 9 months involves little more than taking care of one’s body. That is nowhere near as challenging as parenting a kid that can respond to you and to whom you have to respond and explain things.

    Just because I don’t think she made the right choice doesn’t mean I don’t support her having the choice. I also happen to think it’s stupid and irresponsible for celebrities like Farah Fawcett to encourage people to seek alternative cancer treatment that doesn’t work or for people that exploit the home-schooling option to indoctrinate their children with falsities, like the polygamy communities in Utah do on a regular basis. Giving people freedom of choice doesn’t mean freedom from stupidity comes along with it. First and foremost it’s they that have to live with their decisions.

  • CHAR

    Megan, I went to bed last night and i was very upset that i lost my temper with you. Listen. I should never wish bad on anybody no matter what and god does not bless us with bad things the devil does..He is a good god and one i will always put first in my life besides my babies..It is your opinion no matter how much i do not like it but i love life and i love all babies and i will speak for them because they don’t have a voice to hear them cry out for someone to stop hurting them…I wish i could change everyones minds but i can’t . .. NE ways may god bless you and i hope you do have a heart and change your way of thinking..but if not than only you will know your fate come judgement day and see all babies that have been killed sitting beside god so that all that believe it is okay to kill them really wasn’t but no matter what they will go back to god because they will always be his children.I will keep you in my prayers everynight and all that believe like you.

  • Kerstin

    The picture posted by Jessica says it all. The numbers of abortions are roughly the same whether they are legal or not.
    So to be perfectly blunt, abortion at its core is a political question and nothing else. It has always been available for those with money and connections.
    When legal and safe abortion, and other contraceptives such as the day after pill, is readily available IF NEEDED, maybe this hypocritical country can start educate its children about safe sex, to say no to sex when they don’t want to participate in it, give them tools and answers so they can face peer pressure and so on.

  • PDXsays

    To All Those Who Invoke God or Divinity..

    Knock it the Fuck Off… really!

    Can we have a little freedom of religion as a side with our freedom of choice?

    Invoking religion in this discussion is like walking down the street with the ass cut out of your pants. Yes, pants… you know.. as in the Urban Dictionary definition of “pants.”

  • CHAR

    PDX says,,
    Can you please not use foul language on here..I find it insulting to everyone including yourself.. and by the way GOD is the reason we are all here and yes we do have choice but its in the end some of us will pay dearly for those choices just remember that.. God Bless and have a good night.

  • http://jessicagottlieb.com Jessica

    Great discussion here, but y’all can cuss all you want so long as you’re not name calling each other.

    Every time a woman puts her life at risk I want to scream “Hey G-d what the FUCK is going on?”

    It’s just a word. My readers are really good people, and if this space can make y’all think things through, then I’m a success.

  • CHAR

    It all boils down to do any of you that believe in abortions early or late believe in the word of GOD..becuase if you do than there is no way you believe in his word or other wise you would live by his word.. For those of you that have children, toddler, and up would you want to hurt the person that killed them..Well i would hope so so what is the difference in a little human being, thats right a little human being that cant defend its self..God says he will avenge those and one thing u don’t do is kill one of his babies…

  • PDXsays

    I think that’s just the point, Char. It’s *so not* your place to tell me I have experienced an insult to my person or body because *you* do or don’t like something. Nope, nothing to do with you at all.

    What does feel insulting is the pretty lame attempt to gag me with the inappropriate language argumentation. Language we all can see has been used before in this blog, site, and comment thread *prior* to my post.

    I mean have you ever even seen Jessica’s blog or tweets?

    The topic is the planned murder of a man, and how we think of justice, life and death, and personal rights to decisions and choice, not who is talking PG-13.

  • Jessica

    Char, great discussion, but quoting the new testament might fall on deaf ears here.

    By way of introduction, I’m Jewish and Rabbi’s are cool with the mom before the baby. A lot of my readers are Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist and I have at least one B’Hai reader. I do have X-tian readers too, but I think they have clergy to show them the light.

    So, notsomuch on the new testament by way of argument. We get and respect that it’s your guide, but you might just be a little lonely and it won’t help you persuade anyone.

    Just sayin.

  • CHAR

    Im sorry..I just want to be the cry of the babies who little skulls are having a cold sharp object poked through it and then that vaccum that sucks their little brain out…I want people to imagine what that little person is feeling..There in so much pain and no body to stop the sluttering of the innocense.. Im sorry for all those women who get rapped but instead of waiting a week or month or whatever go straight to the hospital and they have stuff to stop it before the ferilization takes place why wait till its a baby..God has choosen to give us as humans the right of choice thats why he died for us but it takes the ones that believ to get his word out ..Though shall not kill….To take a life and think its your choice well it is but in the end ultimatley they will face judgement….

    All i want to be is a voice for all the innocent babies….

  • fightin’ mad mary

    Hey Char,
    Just a thought – why don’t you start your own blog instead of leaving so many comments here. It’s easy to do, try http://www.blogger.com

    Seriously, it’s a bit rude to just take over a blog post like it’s your own forum. We heard you the first time – why don’t you move on.

  • CHAR

    Because Im allowed to voice my opinion as much as i want. thats exactly whats this forum is for as i understand it. so take it up with Jessica if you have a problem.. You must not be able to handle the truth knowing thats just what it is ..See people like you can’t handle the truth so you try to get people that are maybe taking some thought to it to try and get them to just throw it out like a piece of trash..

    I am the voice of the babies let me cry..Understand that.

  • CHAR

    Oh yeah ..I understand this is about that dr. that was killed and i do not agree with it myself but all i can say is an eye for an eye and he has taken out one to many an the person that did it lost his mind and didn’t want it to happen to another innocent BABY….Is it right well he will be punished to come his time..But we must all send a voice for the babies being sluttered because they aren’t able to do it themselves..REMEMBER THEIR BEING KILLED…..AND WONT HAVE A CHANCE TO CRY….

  • http://megger1018.blogspot.com/ Meghan Harvey

    You know I’ve been trying to refrain from getting into this with you but your last comment was enough for me.
    Eye for an eye? Really? Well than I ask you, who will take God’s eye? How many mothers have you watched say goodbye to beautiful young babies that GOD took from THEM? Why does GOD not protect THOSE babies? How about those mother’s and their endless cries? How do we seek vengeance on God for those babies whom HE takes at will?
    How many babies have YOU lost? How many babies has God taken from you? I myself have had GOD rip 6 babies from my womb. 6. Each one wanted more than life itself. Each one loved with everything in my very soul.
    And how many times have you had a doctor stick a needle into YOUR pregnant belly & tell you that by the time your test results come in you will be past your 21st week. And if those results are bad, you will have to make a choice. How many weeks have you sat by the phone and counted. Week 19. Week 20. Week 21. Waiting to hear the fate of your unborn baby?
    I have, twice.
    So do not pass judgement on me, because I do not blame God for my losses. And I do not blame women who have abortions or doctors who perform them or the choices they make.
    And do not pray for my soul. God and I, well we’re just fine. I sleep well at night and have no concerns over what’s waiting for me, my children, and my family on the other side. We’re covered. So send your prayers to the grieving family of Dr. Tiller. Or of the family of the security guard who died yesterday at the Holocaust Museum at the hands of a madman. Pray for strength for all the mothers in the world who have a lost a child because of GOD’s reckless and random will. Don’t waist your prayers on me, I’m just fine.

  • PDXsays

    Dear Char,

    Take you rolling soap opera to that channel…

    1) More pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion than reach live birth. And women don’t know it. REASON: Many fetuses aren’t viable. You want o further your cause – educate your trailer-park of a mind.

    2)Dr Tiller had a mother…console her on the murder of her son, Oh true follower of Christ. Sheesh.

  • Alicia

    First and for most, I find ‘MOST’ of you people down right disgusting!! I totally agree with Char on everything she has voiced her opinion on. How can anyone is their right state of mind agree with killing an actual LIFE, without even giving it a chance?? If it is not wanted, still have the baby then have it adopted. There is no reason what so ever to choose abortions!! For DAVID–You are very right when you say the procedure will be soon forgotten if not brought about, which is what 87 percent of Americans want!! Most states restrict this procedure because of how it’s done and why!!!!! That is why assholes like you are very well hated! How would you like it if you were to get into a car accident and have deformities and be a burden on family–would you like me to punture your skull, suck your brains out, wipe my hands off & say thats done-No, you would not!! That is the most digusting thing I have ever heard of in my entire life!!

    How can someone sleep at night knowing what they have just done or HAD done–people in the right mind could not…monsters can!! Keep in mind that, the little baby inside you is a LIFE–Yes, people are aloud to attain Pro-Choice, but how about that little life inside of you choice?? Because you are carrying it, it gives you the right to decide?? I totally do not agree with that!!! As for Meghan–enough with the pity party!! That is indeed terrible for you to have to go through, but what about the other mothers that have gone through this? You act as if your the only one! I have not have a child taken away from me and I thank GOD for that!!! But, I did have a scare that my 3rd and last baby might have a deformity–FORTUNATELY he did not! I went through all the procedures as you listed, but not once did it cross my mind to have an abortion!!! That was my baby boy, and whether or not he had 4 legs, 6 toes, two heads–I didn’t care! He still was a HUMAN BEING who deserved to live!! You say your not blaming God–but what did you mention in your above paragraph? Who are you blaming it on Meghan?

    PDX–How about taking your soap opera to “THAT CHANNEL”–I will speak for myself & Char on this note-Our prayers do go out to Dr. Tillers Mother, children, wife, brothers–WHOEVER, but not for once second do I feel sorry for him!! On a personal note, I think he should have his brains sucked out of his head–or had his body torn in two pieces!! How about that for a soap opera??

  • fightin’ mad mary

    I’d just like to thank Char and Alicia especially for inspiring me to make a substantial donation to Planned Parenthood today.

  • http://megger1018.blogspot.com/ Meghan Harvey

    Well, I tried to get people to see things from another point of view. But since that was a waist of time, I’ve decided to stick with my original sentiments.
    1. If you don’t like abortion DON’T FUCKING HAVE ONE.
    2. Suck it.

    That is all.

  • Alicia

    HA HA HA HA HA ! ! ! !


  • CHAR


    Just for your information.. I do know what it is like to loose a baby ….I DID…and it tore me apart..and then with my son i was told he might have down sydrome.. I didn’t care i was going to have this baby even if he did have special needs and that would have made him twice as special…He was born perfectly healthy and im lucky to have 4 healthy children and almost 6 healthy grandchildren so believe me i have been there.. So your excuses mean nothing to me..

    I say still have it against all odds and whether the baby be healthy or not, be glad that you did have one and let the time you do have with it be special even only for a few short moments..give the baby the respect it deserves…And yes you are blaming GOD..you have stated that very clearly…

    this isn’t about spontanious abortions where a baby aborts it’s self its about the right to give one life if it is alive inside of you..Not a doctor or anyone has that right to go up in a womb and drag it out to kill it..

    Why is it someone close to us gets killed or dies and we blame it on other people for their deaths and want that person to be brought to justice but hey go ahead and kill a baby and throw it in the trash like a piece of garbage and thats okay..

    Not pointing the fingers at anyone person but it goes to show who the real sick one are doesn’t it?

  • PDXsays

    Alicia says.. “On a personal note, I think he should have his brains sucked out of his head–or had his body torn in two pieces!! “… u really want to get him, u can do it after death… mail that statement to Dr Tiller’s mother in your condolences card.

    Jessica… Alicia’s “your an asshole” comment to people intentionally violates the no-name calling code you set.

    I think that these people are calling each other and writing each other to congregate here and hold their grudge match on your blog comments.

    And Char… you can strut that “I lost a baby” from a spontaneous abortion that your biology chose as the correct course of action to whatever the heck was going on in that fetus. But you cross the line with your bile and disrespect for the grief caused by loss of life of another mother’s child.

    I don’t believe you *ever* had a miscarriage. I think your a liar. Because I *am* the mother of a child who lived and breathed and played and died. And no other who watched her child die – including Mary, mother of Jesus-would wish that on another mother. Yet you do.

    Jessica, I swear, if you don’t lock this noise down, I will haunt your tweets.

  • Pingback: Friday Confession: Not Today()

  • Carole


    I realize being Jewish you do not recognize the New Testament. How about something from the Torah? Exodus 21:22 “And if men strive together and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follows, he surely will be fined, according as the woman’s husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay what the judges determine. but if ANY harm follow then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth,hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, stripe for stripe.”

    A fine is levied for injury, but it is the death penalty for what is called today “collateral damage”. Killing the baby ON PURPOSE would therefore be unthinkable!

  • PDXsays


    I give up… let the trolls have this blog’s comment threads posting to feed on.

    Meat’s back on the menu, Boys!

  • Carole


    You invited commentary on your viewpoint by putting this blog out there. I have been most civil. I did not “call for the death of abortionists”.. They
    should be brought to trial just as Scott Roeder will be. The “hate speech” you accuse me and others of has been mostly from the pro-abortion camp. Some of it is downright vile with all the profanity. In my opinion sending me a personal email and posting your comment saying that you are “forwarding our names to the FBI” constitutes a threat of harassment and I maybe I need to have my lawyer contact you on this matter. Thank you for your clear demonstration of how pro-abortion people operate when you know you have no leg to stand on.

  • CHAR

    Meghan, I did loose a baby and i am not a liar..I do not care if you believe me or not..But oh well. I do believe in the right to life and the right to choose but its when it comes to taking a babies life it can not choose for its self..I will speak out for them all of them…And your comment MEATS BACK ON THE MENU BOY!!! WOW WHAT A TERM TO USE AGAINST WOMEN INCLUDING YOURSELF..SHOWS YOU HOW MUCH YOU THINK OF YOURSELF..TAKE THAT TO THE (SOAP OPERA CHANNEL)

    Jessica,,i did respect your wishes and i have not ask anyone else not to use foul language..This is your blog but you did ask for opinions and now, well it has turned into a debate but i will always speak for a baby..and i don’t care who the truth hurts..


    Fighting Mary,,,All i can say to you also you will be the one to pay for your actions come judgement day…

    god bless all of you and may he find you peace.

  • http://megger1018.blogspot.com/ Meghan Harvey

    CHar, I think your comment was meant for someone else, not me. Please read closer, I said none of those things.

  • CHAR


    I am very sorry.. I meant that for PDX, Once again i am very sorry…

  • another idiot

    Let her one nightstand pay for the abortion. Enact a law to force the easy lay to notify the idiot who knocked her up. Let them both be responsible for the, “LIFE”, (ALARM – I used the L-word) I know I will hear all the crap about it’s her body, her life blah, blah blah. But there is another scum involved who should take some responsibility and be a man. To all the men like Kermit and Co., and all the women like PDX & Co. you are full of it. Abortion is an easy way out for the man. Let him off easy, idiots.

    At the end of the day, Tiller is dead, his killer is in jail and will die there. So if you believe in a just god, they will both get what they deserve one day. No human laws, no activism, no politics. Just right and wrong. If you don’t believe, then it is natural selection, let the loudest, nastiest, strongest and often stupidest person win the debate.

  • PDXsays

    Hey Jessica..
    A very telling thing has happened here – I *never* stated my position about abortion.

    Yes I am being attacked as a pro-choice supporter.

    All I asked was consideration for a grieving mother and room for intelligent discussion, under the Constitution. And out of the woodwork comes the a whole gaggle of folks who are yelling at me for nothing I said.

    Funny, how that works.

  • kermit

    “Another idiot”: I am a woman, not a man.

    Thank you for living up to your pseudonym though by saying that abortion is about punishing people, and lets men off easy.

  • Rob


    Excellent use of the word sanctimonious. Sums you up in a single adjective. You still have not revealed your agenda. What drives you so passionately? Why is it you feel the need to decry anyone whose opinion, experience of stand is even moderately different to your own?

    I will recap a small, but very important point for you – my wife was given a 40% chance of surviving the pregnancy. She did have a choice and she chose to do what, in her words and opinion was “what a mother does”. Call her thoughts sanctimonious bullshit if you like. But you only say that because she doesn’t believe, didn’t do and didn’t say what you would have. She chose to risk her own life for that of her child. An unselfish act. Something I wager you have never done in your life.

    I do find it ironic that you categorize anyone who offers a different view of the debate from your own as ‘pro-life’ and devoid of logic and reason. I wasn’t offering an opinion, merely sharing an experience. If you feel the need to criticize me, go for it. I don’t expect you to criticize my wife. Someone who cannot defend herself.

  • http://jessicagottlieb.com Jessica Gottlieb

    Um, I’m pro life.

  • another idiot


    So, you are pro-life. And Rush Limbaugh loves blacks and Ann Coulter is a beacon of tolerance and truth. Please!! Everyone should start wearing their own hoods.
    It is just moral cowardice. It is always a safe place to say “I am on your side, but… (totally against you)”.

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  • Kathy

    I do not understand this so called human race. I’m ashamed to even be a part of it. KILLING IS MURDER!!! Whether its Dr. Tiller or the tiny miracles that were aborted. One does not justify the other. The picture of the underground abortion is very ugly, but is it any worse then the pictures of the babies that have been pulled, yanked apart, burned by saline or jabbed in the head with scissors. I think not. Why does everyone think a women has a choice after the fact?? And lets be honest, who is out there having all of these abortions. Is it the women that were raped? Is it the women, that lives are in jepordy if they carry a baby to full term?? Yes, it may be some of these, but the majority of women that are having abortions, are only having them, so hopefully, no one finds out they were even pregnant. Now isn’t that the truth??? Of course it is. It is women who are not at a stage in their lives where they feel they can take care of a child. But yet they were mature enough to have unprotected sex. There are more birth control methods out there today, than there has ever been in the past and yet women are still getting pregnant. WHY????
    “Oh it was just the heat of the moment, I just couldn’t stop and put my birth control device in. It would ruin the moment.” Or, “Well, I just hadn’t gotten down to the health department to pick up my birth control pills, and things just happened.” And men, “Well she told me she was on birth control.” IF YOU ARE OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE SEX, THAN BY GOD, YOUR OLD ENOUGH TO CONTROL THE SITUATION.” Men, if you don’t want to be a father yet, then simply abstain, or use a rubber…..IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TOO!!!! AND WOMEN, YES, YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE. BUT IT COMES BEFORE SEX, NOT AFTER CONCEPTION!!!!! If you are pregnant or thinking about having sex, take a good look at these pictures of aborted babies……it is so sad, they NEVER HAD A CHOICE!!!! But you do, please, please, please for yourself and your unborn or unconcieved child, STOP AND THINK —— CAN YOU LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCIES, WHAT EVER THEY MAY BE. God Bless you and I hope all young women and men make the right choices!!!!

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  • Caseyforrest15

    so what situation was the woman in the pic in that she was willing to risk her life for an abortion?

    • Jlsdfjl

      You are a moron, Mr. Food Stamp on “Y! Answers” 
      Casey Forrest, you need a hobby, quick.